Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to Lead with Heart. I AM your host, Dr. Jesse Hansen. And today I find myself in a little cute beach town of Dominical in the southern part of Costa Rica. And we are heading in to Dualia Clinic and Bathhouse. Check out some of these amazing treatment spaces that these beautiful rooms welcome. This amazing organic lighting. I definitely would love to have a massage in here. If we come over to this side, there's another great little room right in here. Traditional Chinese medicine and energy healing, all sorts of alternative therapies are being welcomed. And again and just feeling the vibe already, it's just so peaceful just walking in. Another thing I'm learning to appreciate about Diwali is not only the holistic and
[00:00:38] Speaker B: alternative, but also the medical and the
[00:00:40] Speaker A: clinical IV treatments and other medical treatments. Again, we'll learn more about later today. Part of the reason why I chose to come here today to do Alia is because it is a place of health and wellness. Lead With Heart is more than just leadership. It's about living the best version of ourselves. And so this is an environment that supports that.
This is an amazing outdoor shower. Before or after the saunas? Before, after whatever treatments I'm getting here. Able to come out here and just really feel held by this beautiful wooden structure as also cleansing physical body. So the final part of this tour will take us through this space to actually be able to see the amazing set that we are going to be working with today. Set out here in nature. On this side of me I have these amazing cold plunges which are ancient way but again it's becoming popular again a way to help regulate our nervous system, do deeper inner focused work. Probably my most favorite thing about Dualia is their sauna. Oh, smells so good in here. And this is a traditional style of using heated electric coils to heat these rocks and pour the water on. It is and it's a way that we can bring that back into our modern life. Here at Dualia they found a way to weave it in and just reminding everyone that we're only maybe 500 meters from the beach right here. We're in the middle of a bustling little beach town. Thank you so much for tuning in today. Another amazing set and setting that we can all do our part to.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: Lead With Heart.
Welcome to Lead with heart. I'm Dr. Jesse Hanson and today we explore the essence of leadership beyond strategy and status. You're watching now Media Television.
[00:02:39] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to Lead with Heart. I'm your host, Dr. Jesse Hanson and this is the show where strategy meets soul and we dive deeper into the hearts and stories of great leaders across this planet to learn about their unique journey of leading with heart. So today my guest is James Stevenson, the COO of Muscle Care, a natural root cause, subtopical pain relief company.
Furthermore, James is also the president of DSL Del Silencio a la Libertad, an organization in Costa Rica working to prevent and respond to child sexual abuse, support survivors with compassionate care and push for real systemic change.
So, James, so happy and excited to have you here. I'll also be transparent since this is Lead with Heart and the whole thing is about being authentic and vulnerable, that you were actually the first guy that I met when I came down here five years ago to explore this for both professional, mostly professional reasons at the time.
So it's very beautiful that we are sitting here five years later having this conversation.
As I mentioned in your lead in there, not only you have one part of your professional life dedicated to, in this case, almost more of a healthcare product and doing good for people that way. And I know it's more recent, but you've taken on this other massive role around some really deep topics that are, you know, coming more and more present everywhere in, in the media these days. So first and foremost, thank you for the amazing work you're doing. Thanks for continuing to explore, you know, what, what the heck we're doing down here in Costa Rica. And it seems like both of us are gaining more purpose. So before we get into all of the deeper stuff that I just mentioned, I do want to go back to just understanding you as a human being.
The roots, you know, this is for all of us, things in our childhood or adolescence that help define us and help imprint us to become who we're going to be. And some of that stuff's hard, some of that stuff shadowy, some of it's great.
So this is your chance to share and just open up with what feels comfortable around, you know, how, how this all started for you, life and your journey.
[00:04:40] Speaker C: Well, yeah, and thank you, thank you for the opportunity. Like, it's great. After five years, who would have thought we'd been here, right?
[00:04:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:46] Speaker C: There's a lot that's happened in those five years and a lot before that. Obviously, like you say, that transformed me into who I am and led me into the place that I am.
So if I, if I kind of take us back, you know, we all, we all have childhoods that have their own traumatic experiences.
I'm English, obviously. I come from the north of England, from a small town called Blackburn.
And There's, I had a very good family. I had a loving yet small family apart from my father, who left when I was kind of three or four, which obviously that caused a lot of problems for my mother, mainly, like she had to raise two boys in a time like this was the 80s. So even in the, just the culture at the time, like, being a single mum was frowned upon, strangely.
[00:05:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:05:36] Speaker C: So there was even like media campaigns saying, you know, the outcomes for a, a single mom's children is terrible. They'll end up on the street, they'll end up doing drugs.
So I've spoke to my mum since and she, she said it was a very tough time. Obviously, you know, we didn't have any support from my father. He left and we never saw him again. So she had the financial burden, she had the, the cultural stigma, but she did. Amazingly, both me and my brother are successful in our own right.
But what I came to realize later on, it was actually the cultural limitation that was more eroding me. It wasn't, you know, what was happening at home, and I had to deal with that later in life.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: What do you mean by cultural limitation?
[00:06:15] Speaker C: So this is a strange thing about the north of England specifically. And it's not just me that noticed it. It's something that is talked about not extensively. There's a podcaster, Chris Williamson, from the Modern Wisdom podcast, he mentions this and there's a, there's a saying or a terminology for the, the mentality of that, that area, which is the Tall Poppy syndrome. So it's kind of inferred in the name, you know, you try and grow and blossom and those around you try and cut you down. They don't want you to grow into whatever you think. So I, I, I took on these feelings of I'm never going to be anything. Like there's no point in trying to aspire to be anything.
And it, that led to me taking on these, these limiting beliefs of I will never be anything. Don't get your hopes up was a mantra that was just repeated constantly.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:07:07] Speaker C: And I internalized those things into. Well, one thing was I never, I didn't realize, this is crazy. I didn't realize until five or six years ago that I could get better at something, that my abilities weren't fixed
[00:07:20] Speaker A: because of that early programming saying, get used to getting, don't get your hopes up.
[00:07:25] Speaker C: Yeah, just stay down. Don't do anything.
[00:07:27] Speaker A: Let me, let me jump on this. This is no such a great opening and share. I mean, not only obviously to better understand you and exciting to hear that you've, now that you've learned that what you're doing with that. In the meantime, though, just for our viewers to continue to understand, I often, as a psychologist, it's programmed into us, and yet you bring up such a great, you know, so much of it is our childhood trauma and, or within the family. And I'm sure, you know, there's challenges and things being a single mom, and yet you bring up such a great point, which is that, yeah, cultural impact can actually have equally, if not more impact on how our programming is for better or worse. So thank you for bringing that cultural reminder to me.
And so. Okay, so take us forward. So you're growing up and, and single mom being told, don't get your hopes up. So what, yeah, what are you doing? How are you, how are you navigating that version of reality?
[00:08:15] Speaker C: Well, you don't do anything, do you? You, you pay attention to what you're being told and you, you sit down and you get on with life. And I followed the normal path. I was pretty studious. I went to university, read genetics. Did well, good university.
[00:08:30] Speaker A: That's what you studied originally, was genetics.
[00:08:32] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Didn't use that at all.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: No.
[00:08:35] Speaker C: But then went into, you know, I went to London, I got a job, I did the thing that you're supposed to do and I, I wouldn't say I was miserable, but I, I always had that thing within me, like this, this can't be it, surely. Like, I'm gonna do this for 60 years.
Why would I do that?
[00:08:51] Speaker A: And this is now early 20s, James.
[00:08:53] Speaker C: Yeah. So, you know, straight out of university, I hightailed it to London and, and spent the next seven years being hedonistic. I, I, you said being hedonistic?
[00:09:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, yeah, going into party time.
[00:09:08] Speaker C: Yeah, because I was escaping. I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing. So what do you do? You, you default to the monkey mind.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: And again, the cultural piece, it's like, it's right there. It's accessible in almost every city. So it's an easy program to follow. Right. Especially if you aren't going to get your hopes up for anything bigger.
[00:09:27] Speaker C: So I did that still. There was this nagging thing of, is this it? Is this it? But I was distracting it with, you know, drugs and drinking.
[00:09:35] Speaker A: Work, work during the day and then partying evening, partying in the day. Partying in the day too.
[00:09:40] Speaker C: You know, it was, it was a lot of fun and I don't regret it, but it, it wasn't Obviously what I was going to do. And I, I knew there was a kind of a time ticking of something's going to change, dude. Like, you can't do this forever.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:53] Speaker C: So I got a. I've had a few breaks, but one. When I was 28, I had a bit of an argument with my boss. He was doing a pretty poor job of running the company and I, I just said I could do better than this.
And he fight. Well, he didn't fire me. He said, go and do whatever you. If you think you can do better, go and do it.
So the next day I quit. And within a month I'd started my own company.
And that sustained me, which was remarkable as well. I had. No, no.
[00:10:19] Speaker A: What was that company when you started?
[00:10:21] Speaker C: It was a very niche company. It was a marketing company in London. So I was putting advertising on.
It's a transit car that they use through the tube.
[00:10:30] Speaker A: Okay. Means the subway.
[00:10:32] Speaker C: Sorry.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:34] Speaker C: No one had ever done it. It was just a little. Very niche product. I was the first and it sustained me for 12 years until so. And you know, I didn't earn a load of money, but as we'll get into again, in the searching and the looking for whatever was going to make me into a purposeful being, I.
I got lost trying to find what I was looking for.
And then when I got the opportunity to get some freedom, I thought, well, at least freedom is something. So I had my own business. I was working online. This is nearly 20 years ago before.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: Before everyone was doing that.
[00:11:11] Speaker C: Exactly. So I was kind of.
I was one of the first digital nomads. And that left me the option of, where do you want to live?
[00:11:17] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:18] Speaker C: What do you want to do? So I instantly moved to the French Alps and snowboarded.
[00:11:22] Speaker A: Oh, wow.
[00:11:23] Speaker C: And just.
[00:11:23] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:11:24] Speaker C: Enjoyed myself. Yeah. I could run the business with two hours a day, three hours a day.
[00:11:27] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:11:28] Speaker C: I didn't need much.
[00:11:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:29] Speaker C: So, you know, and then I thought, oh, I'm an entrepreneur. Great. I've found it. I'm going to make money. I'm going to do like the life.
And then within a couple years I'm like, this doesn't really feel right. And then I really started to get worried because then I thought I'd found it. That's not giving me any purposeful being.
So then I'm trying constantly to search, what would it be? And then I thought, maybe for some reason I'll go and start building eco houses in the south of France.
So I did that for a year. Just took a sabbatical handed my company to someone else.
And that seemed great for a couple of months.
And then I did the same thing. After a year, I'm like, is this what I've done? Or have I taken a massive step back? Have I really screwed myself?
So.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: So, yeah, again, slow it down. So just going back to the seed of this. We got a young boy growing up in Northern England who dad wasn't around. So inevitably that, that impacts things. Even though I hear you that it was good with mom and things were kosher there, the main impact we hear there is the culture telling you, don't get your hopes up. You know, tall poppy syndrome, cutting down the poppy before it can even grow into this young adolescent. You, you did that. You ran the rat race, you did the program, you went to college, got the job, but felt still something's missing. Right. And I know I could. A lot. A lot of us can relate to that. So thank you for having the courage to keep looking. And it sounds like so far in the story that's. That's where we're at, is you've looked here, you've looked there, you had the digital nomad thing nailed before any of us, anyone else did. Right. And so that brings you to now where, roughly what age are we in the story where you're.
[00:13:08] Speaker C: I was 28 when I started my business and then for the next kind of seven years was traveling.
[00:13:12] Speaker A: So roughly mid-30s is when you did the. The Swiss. The south of France eco village thing.
[00:13:17] Speaker C: Yeah, early.
[00:13:18] Speaker A: Early 30s, early 30s. Okay.
[00:13:20] Speaker C: And then, then actually tried to do that in Canada. I went in six months, built eco houses in the.
The back country of Canada again, just escaping, chasing for something that I had no idea what it was and where I'd find it.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: Yeah, but you knew in your body that somehow, like, you weren't due it, wasn't it yet.
[00:13:37] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:13:38] Speaker A: Even with.
[00:13:38] Speaker C: And the anxiety of it was. Was pulling because you, you know, if you get to 35 and you're like, I still don't know what I'm doing, like, at some point you've got to choose something.
[00:13:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:48] Speaker C: And luckily, well, luckily When I was 35, I met. I was in Spain, one of the many, many countries I traveled to and lived in and had some great experiences. Again, I have no regrets about anything in my life.
But I met a girl in.
In Spain who changed my life in two ways.
I'd say both good.
One, she introduced me to personal development, which before that time.
Personal development.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: Personal. Oh, yeah. Like, yeah, doing the work, looking inside
[00:14:18] Speaker C: yeah, you know, there's so many people online and there's so many podcasts and books. Like, I spent two to three hours
[00:14:25] Speaker A: a day just combing through the content for years. So, James, I'm gonna jump in because now this is awesome. This is where we're heading, but we do have to take a quick break here. So I want to ask you viewers, stay with us. We'll be right back after this break on Lead with Heart.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: We'll be right back with more insight stories and practices. And to help you lead from your whole self, this is Lead with Heart on NOW Media Television.
Leadership isn't just about decisions. It's about presence, compassion and courage.
I'm Dr. Jesse Hanson, somatic psychologist and healer. And on Lead with Heart we explore
[00:15:07] Speaker A: what happens when we lead with awareness,
[00:15:09] Speaker B: compassion and the body in mind.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: From brain health to relational intelligence, from
[00:15:16] Speaker B: trauma informed leadership to embodied teams, each episode reveals a deeper way to lead.
Lead with Heart is airing now on NOW Media tv. Because the greatest leaders don't just guide
[00:15:28] Speaker A: people, they awaken them.
And we're back.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: I'm Dr. Jesse Hanson and you're watching Lead with Heart on Now Media Television.
Let's continue embracing leadership with presence and purpose.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: Welcome back to Lead with Heart. Want more of what you're watching? You can stay tuned to Lead with Heart and all your now media favorites by downloading the app on iOS or Android. You can find us on Apple TV Roku if you prefer hearing it on podcasts, Apple, Spotify, our Heart radio, all the great platforms out there, you can find us. So please stay tuned to Lead with Heart and all your NOW media favorites. We're back here at Dualia in Dominical in Uvita, Costa Rica, and I'm very happy to have you here, James. Right when we had to take that break, you were getting into the stuff that I really love, which is personal development work. And you had, as often us men do, you had a female into your life who gives us a little one, two loving smack to say, you know, you might want to better yourself. So give thanks for her. What does she teach you?
[00:16:31] Speaker C: Well, she gave me the opportunity to read into that and to break the one of, well, allow me to start to break the limiting beliefs through the things I was reading. So she introduced me to it. It was my just desire to consume as much as I could because it was totally new. I had no idea.
Kind of sounds a little silly and naive to say that now at the same time. So that was a seven year relationship that ended just when I arrived Here, in fact. But during those seven years, she unfortunately developed schizophrenia, which I had no experience of. She didn't even know that she was having it, obviously.
And that's a very difficult thing to have to live with. At the same time, she had a chronic illness, so I was caring for her. So I was working for two. Working two jobs to support her, caring for her, and at the same time getting a lot of abuse, physical, emotional, from her, which.
[00:17:25] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:17:26] Speaker C: It's very difficult.
Sorry.
[00:17:28] Speaker A: No, you gotta finish that thought.
[00:17:30] Speaker C: It's very difficult when the person you love hates you. Like, it's a really difficult thing to navigate. And then, you know, how do you.
Do you want to back out of it? Do you want to go through it? At the same time, I'm learning personal development and how to be a better person, thinking I can get through this by just learning how to be a better person. Maybe I can help change her.
That obviously didn't work, but it gave me some tools. Not only the person development I'm learning, but also I went through something stupidly hard.
And in that, you learn that you have something about yourself. So that now I have something that I can look back on and go, hey, whatever I'm going to attack in the future, is it going to be as hard as seven years working with, living with someone who was really. I didn't leave the house for years without her because she wouldn't say. She wouldn't let me leave.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: But the emotional consequences were high if you did. Yeah.
Wow. So, yeah, let's just take a breath with that one. That's big, man. Thank you for your vulnerability. That's awesome.
One, one reflection. Is that wild that the same person that initially kind of opened you up to personal development and the deeper work is also the person that ended up taking you on your wildest ride and deepest learning lesson beyond personal work. So that's wild. And then. Yeah, no, just. I mean, the other theme I'm tuning into here is just how much, even though obviously this was in your personal life, but how much it must impact your professional life and as well as, like, for light and shadow, you know, the heaviness of that, but also the perseverance that you learned in getting through that process to help you launch forward to where you are now is also pretty amazing.
So I wonder if you're willing or able to just say, yeah, I mean, I love that vulnerability a little bit more on just, you know, it's up to you. Doesn't nest. I'm not necessarily asking for, like, gory details but just can you open up about some of the impact on you both as, you know, just as a man, but also what you remember? How did it impact your professional identity, your. How you were leading?
[00:19:40] Speaker C: Well, at the time, like I say, I. I was having to work two jobs to sustain us. It was expensive because we had to move around a lot for various reasons.
I don't think with. At the time, I was just surviving. Like it. There was no thought of the jobs I had, whether they were gonna help me or lead me forward.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: In other words, because your profession, your personal life was going through such a hard time, your professional life was more just like survival. Yeah.
[00:20:06] Speaker C: And at that point I didn't even think that the thing that was going to pull me forward was the thing that I have as a job or a career, even though I kind of have two at the moment.
Again, I was still searching. I had the tools of trying to make yourself into a better person, but I didn't have.
I didn't have the direction nor the thing that was going to pull me towards.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: You also had an incredibly difficult relationship that would have made it hard to find a direction. Yeah. You know, even if, Even if you had a found one, it sounds like you couldn't have gone towards it anyways.
[00:20:39] Speaker C: No.
But then, you know, I was. I was learning enough to know that there was a way out.
I was, I was hearing a lot of stories of people who were a lot worse than I was, having terrible lives and becoming successful in whatever they were. We're going to say that that was. So I, I did have hope.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:00] Speaker C: And especially by that stage, the internalization of the father leaving, not having money.
Those were two things. I, I had a.
A love complex that I didn't think I was lovable.
Why would you. If your father leaves at 3 and never contacts nor.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: And your culture tells you, don't get your hopes up.
[00:21:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: AKA you're not good enough.
[00:21:20] Speaker C: Yeah. But then it. With what I was reading, what I was seeing, those things started to fall away. The. I had a big, complex battle was not having money because my mum did incredibly well. But we were poor.
[00:21:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:32] Speaker C: Not crazy poor, but, you know.
[00:21:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:35] Speaker C: So those, I'm going to say them, they were minor traumas. In some way, they started to fade away and I started to realize that I. I was having less limitations that would let me find the thing and pursue the thing, if only I could find it. So, you know, I'm growing and the poppy is growing above the rest of the seed.
But I didn't have the direction nor the light to direct my attention towards.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: And that poppy growth, is that happening now as you're getting out of that dysfunctional relationship?
[00:22:10] Speaker C: Yeah. So it's basically when we arrived in Costa Rica, within a year, that had fallen apart.
At that time, I had no money, had no job, had no friends, was so damaged that the first day that I had just myself, I was having a coffee on the terrace and thought, I can go to the cafe. I can just walk and have a lovely coffee on my own.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: I'm free.
[00:22:33] Speaker C: I'm free.
It took me 45 minutes.
Sat outside before the gate of my property because I couldn't comprehend that I was able to leave the house without. Without some war. Without war. And to sit there for 45 minutes. Wow. That's how strong it was.
[00:22:51] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:22:52] Speaker C: But again, like it.
[00:22:53] Speaker A: That's such a powerful example of, you know, my specialty of trauma healing and how it impacts our body, our nervous system. And there you are, you know, what, late 30s, early 40s, a very intelligent man, and yet your body was telling you, like, don't go, don't go. Right. So, wow. We know that. Yeah. And this is perfect. Where we're heading into is this section called the Lotus, where it's all about. Wow. Like, that's, you know, that's. This isn't even that long ago. This is three to four years ago. Right. That we're talking about now. So, you know, just for our viewers to hear that, of the. The journey of. Of leading with heart, the journey of the lotus turning something crappy into something beautiful. Here you are with all of that. So let's. Yeah, let's move into that part of the story of. Of how you start to grow your lotuses and the new you emerging. And by the way, during that period, you did have one friend.
[00:23:41] Speaker C: I did have one friend, but I wasn't able to. To see, you know, any of the other people I met because, you know, you're on lockdown.
On lockdown. And it's. It's a very difficult situation. And anyone at home who's having to deal with that or having to deal with anyone else who has that, I feel for them. But there is a way out. Like, there definitely is a way out. And there's. There's light at the end of the tunnel, that's for sure.
[00:24:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:03] Speaker C: So.
[00:24:03] Speaker A: So how did you start finding your lights and getting through that place where you were just telling us that. Yeah, you know. You know, no friends. Like, she's. You're done with the relationship, but you're still almost in disbelief that you can even go for a walk.
[00:24:16] Speaker C: Yeah, well, it was in the personal development search. Like, I must have listened to a thousand different people, but one stood out, and that's Jordan Peterson.
For anyone who doesn't know, he's a Canadian psychologist. He's got into the political side a little bit.
Ignore that. Listen to his message, his originals. Yeah. Because especially he has his own kind of take on a lot of things. But the. The one thing that really hit home for me was his analysis of the Bible.
So I'd been a massive atheist, like, totally thought they were just silly stories. And anyone who believed it was, you know, naive, maybe. Whatever you want to call when you actually understand and when you have someone of that caliber explaining what the stories of the Bible actually mean, it can really change your perception of yourself, the world, and the powers that maybe we don't see.
And that opened up a lot of things for me.
[00:25:13] Speaker A: I'm so happy you brought that up, James, that. That is such a theme in my life. I call this faith. You know, the ability to have faith in something, whether I don't get in fights about what name to use of God, but to hear you say that, man. And I find that as such a. I know for me in my life, but many people I hold space for is when they have some element of faith.
I see it time and time again, things start to shift for the better. You know, things start to move forward. So, okay, so faith pops its head into your life in this. In through Jordan Peterson as your. Your particular messenger.
[00:25:46] Speaker C: But so faith. Yes, faith, but there's a lot more to it. And again, I wasn't. I wasn't a religious man. I. I came to it through.
Kind of frustratingly for me, actually, I came through it through logic.
I'm still on an early journey through Christianity.
And frustrates me more that I see a lot of Christians who have this deep belief of everything that's in there. Whereas mine initially, and it is growing, mine was seeing these stories and seeing the reflection in the actual true world and think and seeing that these are
[00:26:23] Speaker A: biblical times we're in right now.
[00:26:25] Speaker C: Well, not only that, but the stories that have been been portrayed in the Bible have been portrayed in many other religious texts for millennia.
[00:26:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:34] Speaker C: And if a story grabs you and retain. Retains its position within a culture for so long, there's something deep in that. And it's. That's not just a story that's repeated for no reason. These are stories that have more than the meaning of just the words that are spoken.
[00:26:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:50] Speaker C: And when I started to really see that, that's what changed me.
There's a few specific things that Jordan told, well, tells his lessons, told me personally that the really cemented how I could change my life.
The main one being the pursuit of meaning.
I think a lot of people, a lot of people in the personal development space say, you know, find your why.
And that, that is kind of what I'm kind of advocating for. But I think there's a lot more to it than just sitting on the end of your bed and thinking, what should I do?
That's not going to be it.
[00:27:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Find your why, find your purpose, find your meaning. And so now, James, I'm loving where you're going. We do have to take a quick break, but this is a perfect lead into the next section. When we get back, we're going to go deeper into the lotus, the transformation, learning about where James is evolving to now and where he's headed. So stay tuned. We'll be right back.
[00:27:49] Speaker B: We'll be right back with more insight stories and practices to help you lead from your whole self. This is Lead with Heart on NOW Media Television.
Leadership isn't just about decisions. It's about presence, compassion and courage.
I'm Dr. Jesse Hanson, somatic psychologist and healer. And on Lead with Heart we explore what happens when we lead with awareness, compassion and the body in mind.
[00:28:20] Speaker A: From brain health to relational intelligence, from
[00:28:22] Speaker B: trauma informed leadership to embodied teams, each episode reveals a deeper way to lead.
Lead with Heart is airing now on NOW Media tv. Because the greatest leaders don't just guide
[00:28:35] Speaker A: people, they awaken them.
And we're back.
[00:28:40] Speaker B: I'm Dr. Jesse Hanson and you're watching Lead with Heart on Now Media Television. Let's continue embracing leadership with presence and purpose.
[00:28:49] Speaker A: Hello and welcome back to Lead with Heart. In this segment, we're going to continue our conversation with James Stevenson. He's been taking us through an amazing journey of understanding your childhood into now the place of your awakening, the place of you starting to realize not only personal development work, but also what I'm gonna still call faith. I get it that you are, you're not over committing to the great religious, but to at least admit and see there is a correlation in these stories. There's a power in ancient wisdom, there's a power in what our ancestors have known.
So for me, that's an important element of what I call the lotus, which is the ability to turn crappy things into beautiful things. And for sure, growing up without a dad, being told that you're not good enough. Like, that's. That's in enough. I'm sure there was other things if we went digging, but that's enough already, James, to even more deeply appreciate who you are today. So this section, I want you to go deeper on who you are now and how you're turning all of this crap into fertilizer. And obviously curious about the medical healthcare product you do, but also the deep work you do with people that really need it.
[00:29:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
So just to carry on from the.
[00:29:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:58] Speaker C: Bring us faith aspects.
[00:29:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:00] Speaker C: So the thing that Jordan really pushed at wasn't just the stories of the Bible being relevant now. There was ideas within that wisdom that I could see could be useful. I could see that, for example, our attention, what we pay attention to is what we focus on. And what you focus on more can determine your personality, who you become, what
[00:30:25] Speaker A: we focus on, or where our attention goes.
Intention goes, too. Right. It's all. All interconnected.
[00:30:31] Speaker C: Exactly. And that it was. It's reflected in very ancient stories. There's. I can't remember the name of the God from Sumerian texts, but had eyes around his head and spoke magic words, spoke the truth.
And one thing that I learned from the seven years of living with a person with mental issues is you have to tell the truth. You can't tell a single lie to someone with schizophrenia because they will latch onto it. So I'd learned to tell the truth. I'd learned the integrity of that mindset, but I'd also learned that wherever you put your attention can be a very powerful thing.
And if you pay attention to what drives you, you can find your meaning. So it's not a. Like I said, not sitting on the bed and just ruminating for something to hit you and then go, oh, okay. That's what I've been doing. I've been like, oh, I could be an entrepreneur. I can be an eco warrior. I could do all these silly things. None of them had helped at all.
As soon as I started paying attention, things changed.
And the first thing that. That was when I was deep in my depression from coming out of that relationship.
A friend suggested I help kids at a local charity.
Never helped kids before in my life. Wasn't really something I was interested in. Didn't think anything of it. Just thought, it's a Saturday afternoon. I haven't got anything else to do.
[00:31:48] Speaker A: And not just kids, but Ticos, which. Which means the native Costa Ricans.
People that are far less privileged than a lot of where we've come from.
[00:31:57] Speaker C: Very much so. And these These were the, the most deprived. They, most of them didn't have shoes, they had nothing.
And for one day a week, we took them into a beautiful location in the mountains and we taught them swimming, soccer and English. And I couldn't speak a word of it, of Spanish, so I was just playing with them. And it was the greatest experience. It was the most beautiful thing I've ever witnessed and been part of. And it changed everything.
[00:32:28] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:32:30] Speaker C: And I, you know, again, pay attention. So I realized, hey, this is, I've
[00:32:34] Speaker A: never felt this and this is just to track it. This is what I mean when I say lead with heart. It's like you felt something in your heart didn't make sense. You'd never thought about helping kids, you never wanted to. But when you went and did it, there was a feeling that led you.
[00:32:46] Speaker C: And like I say, it wasn't. I'm not thinking what's my purpose? I'm paying attention to whatever message is coming into me. And I'm, I'm leading there. I'm going forward. I'm, I'm seeing where that, what the goal at the end of that, that path can be.
And unfortunately that charity, after maybe six months, they lost funding and the entire thing fell apart.
So I was in kind of despair. Like I've just found this thing that I really like. What am I gonna do?
And I did one event for 140 kids which was beautiful, but I couldn't sustain doing that.
[00:33:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Like it was too much to pull off for one one man team.
[00:33:24] Speaker C: It was great, but it was horrendous.
[00:33:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:26] Speaker C: But then, you know, I, I felt I had something and then I felt like I had the tool. Like just pay attention to what, what you're feeling, what you're thinking, what's. What's in your field of vision and go down that path.
And then I started to see around town, as you'll see if you visit this beautiful area and signs saying child abuse is not okay.
And I didn't really think anything of it, to be honest. And just the more I saw it, I realized that this is another thing that I need to pay attention to.
So I went to the, the organization and met Kim Kimberly Chavez, just one of the most amazing women I've ever met. Just so devoted.
[00:34:07] Speaker A: And just to slow down and clarify, the organization you're now respect. Respecting Del Silencio.
[00:34:14] Speaker C: Dsl, let's call it dsl, yeah.
[00:34:15] Speaker A: That, that means the, the silence that bring, bring them out of silence into freedom.
[00:34:20] Speaker C: From silence.
[00:34:21] Speaker A: From silence to freedom.
[00:34:22] Speaker C: Because they, these kids who go through sexual abuse, they are silenced because they're, they're told to shut up. They're told, it happened to me, it'll happen to you. Shut up and just live your life.
[00:34:31] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a tragic, tragic threat sometimes if, if you talk.
[00:34:37] Speaker C: Right, that as well. Yeah. Although as we'll get into the, the cultural limitation that, that I said was affecting me. Totally different one obviously here, but it is, it's. It's systemic throughout the country.
They.
No one wants to talk about it, despite it having happened to everyone.
So I met with Kim. She told me her story.
I don't need to repeat her story, but it took me to tears. We were just in her office both bawling, and I couldn't believe the story that she was telling me. But then I couldn't believe her testimony of what's happening in this country.
And she, she, she said at that time, and I can verify with all, every single Tico I've met since have verified this, that over 75% of TICO children are sexually abused. 75.
If you ask the government, they'll say it's a handful of cases, thousands across the country a year. Those numbers aren't right. And you can go down the street and ask anyone and they'll tell you the thing.
[00:35:45] Speaker A: So, yeah, James, no, thank you. I mean, first of all, beautiful to see how your personal journey is not only taking you to the place where you still want to be of service this way and support kids, and you're bringing up a super deep topic that is relevant to hopefully all of us pay attention to this, because it's not just what James is saying right now. It's coming out in all sorts of media formats just of this whole hidden culture within humanity that has to do with some really dark things to children.
And so, you know, we are obviously not going to be able to solve that in 12 minutes here in Dominical, but I think just to name and how do we hold this today on the show is. Yeah. I guess just to continue to tell me what it means to you to be able to step up in this way and how is it for you, you know, the different parts of you inside, like the feelings, the way it impacts your leadership in the company.
[00:36:35] Speaker C: Yeah. So one of the things I didn't mention when, when I was getting a lot more religious, Christian, one of the things that the tipping point was Covid, or at least the aftermath of COVID And I have to drop the political ideas around Covid, but what I saw was evil. I saw true Evil playing itself out in the world at the same time that I'm reading of the biblical texts and even this, the yin yang symbol that we see here is, you know, it's the chaos and order.
And again I started to see that it pervades everything in society.
And as soon as you realize that evil exists and truly exists, not just something ethereal, something real in our world, actionable, actionable, then you realize that good exists.
[00:37:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:27] Speaker C: And then you got something to contend with.
[00:37:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:30] Speaker C: And then if you start to realize that if you're paying attention and your attention is being pulled towards doing potentially well, I would argue one of the best goods is to stop the sexual abuse of children because I can't think of anything more evil on this planet.
Well, then you've got purpose and you've got meaning. Yeah. And then not only do I have meaning, but anyone that you go to and say, hey, there's this problem and we can solve it. Like this isn't something that has to last.
Do you want to get involved?
Like, who's going to say no to that?
[00:38:02] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:38:03] Speaker C: So yeah, it's with that the strength of conviction that we are truly trying to beat the evil in this world that drives me and drives everyone who is associated with our organization.
[00:38:14] Speaker A: Definitely get a warm lifted feeling in my heart when I hear you talk about this, James. And yeah, how I interpret that and translate back to you as a leader is there's not much of a more heart filled way to lead than to know everything you're doing is for not just children, but for their protection of their physical bodies, their sexuality, their sacredness, you know.
[00:38:38] Speaker C: Well, and I being part of the organization, I am very directly involved with the cases that we, we find I hate.
I can give you many stories of girls that we've helped. I literally pulled one from the house in which she was about to be abused. I picked her up and took her to our safe house.
And that girl is now with a foster family in a beautiful situation. I went to her 10th birthday party a few weeks ago. She was as happy as I've ever seen anyone. And I saw the moment I took her out of the house. And the, the transformation is real and that's the work we're doing and not just the saving and sheltering and healing. The justice is part of this.
And that's the biggest issue that we have as an organization is the holes that are in the processes that should stop these things from happening or when they have happened, bring some justice. So that actually this entire thing is, is curtailed and eventually stopped. Eventually, yeah, yeah, that's, that's a big thing. There are, you know, this isn't, this is Costa Rica. It's a beautiful country. It's got amazing people. But there are systemic issues.
[00:39:51] Speaker A: Sadly, this evil is, is everywhere on the planet right now. You know, as a psychologist, I know this, too. I've worked with countless victims of childhood sexual assault, men and women, mostly women, obviously, sadly. And yeah, I'm just, you know, I'm rarely do I not feel a lot of words I want to say because I feel just how deep and, you know, sad this is and also how powerful it is to sit here with you today, someone that I've now known for five years and someone I've seen go through almost all of what you've described in your story and to just sit back for a moment and appreciate, you know, how you've made this lotus, you know, you've grown this lotus into this while still running a health company on the side, which we haven't even gotten into yet. And we will when we get back from this break. So please stay tuned with us to come to the exciting completion of James's story on Lead With Heart.
[00:40:46] Speaker B: We'll be right back with more insight stories and practices to help you lead from your whole self. This is Lead with Heart on NOW Media Television.
Leadership isn't just about decisions. It's about presence, compassion and courage.
I'm Dr. Jesse Hanson, somatic psychologist and healer. And on Lead with Heart, we explore what happens when we lead with awareness, compassion and the body in mind.
From brain health to relational intelligence, from trauma informed leadership to embodied teams, each episode reveals a deeper way to lead.
Lead with Heart is airing now on NOW Media tv. Because the greatest leaders don't just guide
[00:41:32] Speaker A: people, they awaken them.
And we're back.
[00:41:37] Speaker B: I'm Dr. Jesse Hansen, and you're watching Lead with Heart on Now Media Television. Let's continue embracing leadership with presence and purpose.
[00:41:47] Speaker A: Hello, welcome back to Lead with Heart. Would you like to keep attuned to everything, Lead With Heart and all your other now media favorites? Simply download the app on iOS or Android Roku Apple TV. You can find us through the podcast platforms like Spotify, Apple, iHeartRadio, all of those great ones. So please stay tuned for now. We are going to continue this journey and this conversation with James Stevenson. Welcome back. In our final segment, I would like to weave all of this together into what I like to call the harvest or the place where we can really extract some deeper wisdom Here. There's been A lot coming through.
And so I want you to offer. Anything else you want to say about the work with dsl. And also, you know, I think it's relevant to at least acknowledge it how, you know, how you're also holding down Muscle care and that product and what you do there and what you're dreaming. I guess the last part of this question is, what are you dreaming awake?
[00:42:42] Speaker C: What.
[00:42:42] Speaker A: What do you want to see happen next for yourself as a leader?
[00:42:46] Speaker C: Well, let's. Let's just touch on Muscle Care because that was actually, that was a big part of me as well, moving away from a very corporate world and to work with Dr. Chris Oswald, one of the.
[00:42:56] Speaker A: Dr. Chris Oswald. Yeah.
[00:42:57] Speaker C: Brilliant. An amazing Canadian guy as well.
[00:42:59] Speaker A: No. You like your Canadians?
[00:43:01] Speaker C: Yeah, no, love him.
36, 37 years as a chiropractor, Very successful guy. Started a product that. Because he saw all the other pain products on the market that were bad for you or not doing anything, either
[00:43:15] Speaker A: bad for you or just sort of
[00:43:16] Speaker C: a hoax masking pain.
[00:43:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:19] Speaker C: He developed something that actually truly changes the physiology of the muscle and actually helps you repair. So it's. It. There is purpose in that. I want to help people with pain, obviously, but it's obviously just a great position and a great company to work for.
[00:43:35] Speaker A: And that, that came as you were kind of having your. Your realizations, your faith. I'm still going to call it that. But your, your opening there is then when you manifested that job with him, which was the blend of your past where you were more corporate, but with health, wellness and a conscious partner.
[00:43:51] Speaker C: Yeah. And I have some skills. I've started my own businesses.
So I took that into the CEO role and we're doing very well with Muscle Care and we're leading that forward very much. And that actually helped me with going into DSL because it was an organization before I got there, but it didn't really have the structure. So I was able to bring a business idea to just ground it. And that allowed us to. Well, it is allowing us to move forward. And I'm sure we'll get into the project Sio Cuento in a second.
But if I just go back to the wisdom that I think is that helped me get to where I am is all about the attention.
So when I was trying to change my life and try and find purpose and I was paying attention to any message that came to me and then daily was a practice I used to get through life and to lead me to where I am. And that led me to Dr. Chris and that Job. And as. The more I did that, the more I saw the benefit of just paying attention to what you see.
And like I mentioned, the. As you start to delve into these religious texts, even things like that, such as something so simple as just where you hold your gaze, either mentally or physically in your vision, can lead to, to the, the calling. And for example, there's, there's an old alchemical story that's.
It's around Mercury. So Mercury, the, the Roman God, Mercurius, the alchemical God, and Hermes I think is the, the Roman God. I might got those wrong. So Mercury just as an element, if you put Mercury into the raw ore that holds gold, Mercury will extract that gold. That's a thing that happens in, in the world.
[00:45:45] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:45:46] Speaker C: So that's just a strange thing. Anyway, pull that back into what we had told about Mercury, the king, the winged messenger of the gods.
So he is always shown as having golden wings. Sometimes he's actually represented as a golden orb and he flits around just as something golden and shining would flit around and catch your attention.
The winged messenger of the gods, who is there to provide the pantheon of the gods, a conduit, to provide the message to you that they want to convey. And he's the one who's going to convey that. And what's he doing? He's flitting around trying to grab your attention. And if your attention is elsewhere, you're not going to get that message.
[00:46:30] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:46:31] Speaker C: And that's exactly what I could see. I could see that if my attention is pulled by hedonistic living in London or searching for life in Canada or Spain or France or wherever I was trying to find it.
[00:46:41] Speaker A: The difference between searching versus finding.
[00:46:43] Speaker C: Yeah, I was searching. I wasn't finding anything.
[00:46:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:46:46] Speaker C: As soon as I started to get focused on paying attention to what I believed at that time was a message from God, life started to change.
And I, I truly, again, it's. It's the embodiment of the spiritual that we see in these texts in, in the cultures before ourselves. And we get distracted by the veneer of modern life. But there's a lot of wisdom and there's a lot of words that we should probably be paying attention to more.
[00:47:12] Speaker A: I definitely agree with you. The wisdom of listening, of presence. The word conspiring with the universe. Co. Inspire. It's like you inspire the universe because you started to get more present and feel your body, feel your heart, and then you get inspired back by the things that are happening.
[00:47:27] Speaker C: Well, what's inspired the etymology of Inspire is the breath of God. Yeah, that's literally what it means.
[00:47:32] Speaker A: Inspire.
[00:47:33] Speaker C: Yeah. It's the breath of God breathed into you. It's exactly the same story.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: And it's hard to challenge or think otherwise than the work you're doing, especially with dsl, is God's work.
If that's not God's work, I don't know what is. To protect children from evil.
That's a pretty high calling and a big place to lead with heart, James.
[00:47:57] Speaker C: But to be honest, it doesn't feel it's a big undertaking. There's a lot to do.
[00:48:01] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:48:02] Speaker C: And I'm sure, hopefully there's people out there who hope to help us and, and try and end this.
But when you feel that it is a higher purpose, there's no, there's no looking at the stories of the girls who come to us week in, week out with abusive stories.
There's no, I don't get down, I don't get upset. They. They energize me because I see here's an opportunity for us to change what otherwise would be a really sad story. We can change this. And this can be the start of where we change all of these stories. And our intention is to. We have, we have a program that I'd like to talk about. Yo Kwento.
So we have our organization. We do the awareness and the education. We do shelter and support, and we do justice and healing. There are three kind of pillars.
But as we've been doing this for a few years, one of the issues that we found is there are holes within the system, both within what we can do, within schools or organizations that are involved with kids, to the judicial system, that no amount of us banging in our head against a wall is going to help. We need to systemically change those.
So what we've started is a program with, consulted with large multinational organizations that go into countries like Costa Rica and change the law, consulted with them on how to create a model that we can replicate from just the small town district that we're working in here, up through the stages of government, all the way up to the top. And we've had meetings with all of those up to the highest ranks in government to say, look, when we, when we show the data of this project, when we can show that within our small but rather large community of people that spread out when you're in the campo of Costa Rica, when we can show that, we can show there is a potential for change. And all we need to do is highlight these areas that these need to Be filled. And when these are filled, the result is children are not abused. And the cultural limitation that is just enforced on kids, which you, you speak to anyone. Yeah, they have the same thing. And I've met so many of them with that mentality.
[00:50:21] Speaker A: But that's part of what I'm hearing, is part of what you're dreaming awake is you want to help this, the, the Silencio project grow and scale. Right.
[00:50:31] Speaker C: I'm here to change this country.
[00:50:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:50:33] Speaker C: And if we can change this country, we change South America. Because this isn't just a Costa Rican thing.
[00:50:36] Speaker A: No, it's.
[00:50:37] Speaker C: This is a Latin thing. It's a world.
[00:50:38] Speaker A: It's a world thing, but where we can reach from little by little. So I want to highlight one other wisdom here, is that.
[00:50:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:50:46] Speaker A: Echoing off what you said before, which is that, you know, choosing to listen, I think so often that's what I hear from so many leaders as we are awakening, realizing we were operating this way, that we weren't really listening. We're thinking and we're thinking we are in control or we're searching for control or we think we know versus that humbleness of listening. And I think it's ultimately the balance of both. But for most of us, we need more of the second of the listening. So I feel like that's really beautiful wisdom you're bringing forward, James. And also this is a little bit practical, but I know a lot of our viewers are entrepreneurs and are watching this to learn more just about how other leaders lead. One technique I see you doing here is that you are leveraging your day job, which is still an amazing project, and around healthcare and all of that, and yet you leverage that to allow you to do this other project, which I know because I've been in this world for long enough to know. Organizations like this usually don't get great funding and it's not, you know, it doesn't usually pay the bills, especially if you're used to a leadership role. So, you know, I say that with a lot of love and respect. You say good job, like that's something beautiful because there's so many people I've either worked with or talked with that are overall really great people and they're stuck in a more, let's call it, corporate but high functioning role at work and they genuinely want to do something like what you are doing.
But getting that balance of like, how do I actually still take care of myself and run a highly functioning company while also doing something so purpose driven, which again, not your fault, not my fault. Systemically, all of the most purpose, not all, but most of the most purpose driven projects always seem to be lacking funding. Right. Trying to raise money for a health and wellness project versus raising for AI.
You can get a billion dollars in a day. It takes you a year to get a million dollars here. Right. Like so. Anyways, I just want to commend you on that because I think that is a little thing around just how we lead sometimes. It's about balancing what we need to do to check off all the dots as well as doing something with purpose. So.
Wow, man. No. You brought so much forward here today, James. I wish we had more time and like to keep going into this. We do have to come to a pause here. So I want to make sure that people know if they do want to learn more about you specifically and or the work you're doing, how's the best way they can keep in touch with you in the digiverse.
[00:53:02] Speaker C: You don't need to know more about me, you need to know more about dsl. I think like I'm not the story here. DSL is the story and what we're trying to do is, is the most meaningful thing I think at least I can put my attention to. So if, if there are other people out there who think that child abuse shouldn't be a thing that, that pervades any society, especially one that is so embedded so that 75 of kids have to experience some form of sexual abuse, which. That number blows my mind. But like I say it is true then, then I encourage people to. To search for. Yo cuento DSL CR is our website.
[00:53:41] Speaker A: DSL cr.
[00:53:43] Speaker C: Yeah. Easy and yoento. Yoento has two meanings. I tell and I count. So it's I'm telling my story and I count because the numbers, I matter. Yeah, I matter.
[00:53:53] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:53:53] Speaker C: And that is where we are really looking for funding to make sure that we can have this pilot project be a success. And with that success, we already have the things in place to make it into a national project. So I really hope for people to go on the website, donate anything you can or just email me. I'd be very happy. James.
DSL cr. Please get in touch. Happy to have a conversation.
[00:54:16] Speaker A: Thank you so much for the great work you're doing.
[00:54:18] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:54:19] Speaker A: Definitely leading with heart. Let's keep it flowing and glowing. Growing forwards.
[00:54:23] Speaker C: That's right, man.
[00:54:23] Speaker A: Thank you so much, James.
[00:54:24] Speaker C: Thank you Jesse.
[00:54:25] Speaker A: Appreciate it. Thank you everyone for tuning in to Lead with Heart. We'll be back with more stories and beautiful vulnerabilities heart shares from other great leaders. So stay tuned.
